Is Siemens Retarded or Just Anti Solid Edge?

I get emails that sometimes boggle the imagination. Today this one takes the cake. Here is a screen capture and you can figure out how to get there if you want.

Is Siemens retarded

So what is it Siemens? A guy who uses Siemens Controlled SE for a month becomes a mouthpiece for how superior NX is over SC SE? Really, you mean this??? What exactly am I supposed to think about this ad from one of your very biggest USA VAR’s?

I think you have no deliberate intention of boosting sales or market share for SE. If it happens fine but you do not seek to make it happen. I have now come to conclude this is a deliberate policy and I have to wonder just what are your plans for SE. I mean really just what am I supposed to think after official advertising such as this and Siemens Corporate smothering any effort to really get the word out on SE. If this is not deliberate policy (and today as I type this I think it is and you have made a choice against SC SE) it is at the very least another sign that the left hand does not know the right under your incapable direction.

Or is it the continuation of the fight between the mighty and lofty superior NX bunch over the threatening SC SE capabilities that might eat into NX sales? Do you people not realize that you are part of the same company? That NX and SE serve two different markets and do not coexist in the same work environments to any large degree? That when you try to sell more NX to SE markets what you are really doing is helping to sell more SolidWorks and Inventor seats into that market?

Unbelievable. Siemens new corporate branding for SE. “Buy NX, it is better!”

19 responses to “Is Siemens Retarded or Just Anti Solid Edge?

  1. I literally laughed out loud at my monitor.

    Other considered headlines…

    “Solid Edge More Like HIV, Not Full-Blown AIDS”
    “NX is Quick Rebound from SE”
    “Solid Edge Interface Turns Out To Be Mildly Relevant”
    “Solid Edge Not Death Sentence for Budding Engineer”

  2. Really, Dave? Your going to take a blog post from an “Associate” at a Siemens partner as Siemens policy? That’s a stretch. But if it fits your agenda, I guess you’ll run with it. What “boggles the imagination” and “takes the cake” is your reaction to this post.

    If you actually read the post and thought about the fact that this was from a support associate at a VAR that sells both Solid Edge AND NX, you’d realize that it is his job to know both solutions and he was able to learn both of them in just a few weeks. And only because I know this associate personally, I know that he didn’t have any previous CAD experience.

    Really what this post illustrates is how easy BOTH solutions are to learn. But, once again, that wouldn’t fit your agenda, now would it?

    Happy blogging, Dave. Or is it flogging?

    • Hi Micheal,
      I am not going to argue with you about this and you bet I have an agenda. The question to ask though is why and does it have merit and basis in things done in real life.It infuriates me that technically superior SE takes a back seat in the world and with Siemens and maybe with you guys to.In case you are not aware words mean things and what you convey on this bit you sent was SE was OK but NX is great. Sorry but there was no reason to go past the first page as an SE user to find out more as I was offended enough already with more SE redheaded step child junk.

  3. It wasnt a great bit of writing all things considered. Aside from the possible take away message that people who have SE could or should move on to up to a better place with NX or its probably better not to go there at all, its yet another dull, grey, even pointless article to behold. Why does all Siemens stuff have to be so badly thought out and presented? This article may be picked to support Dave’s particular view but to me as an outsider it seems pretty consistent with the tone and standard of other material that Siemens have on offer. Its also a bit disturbing to know from a post above that Siemens provide support via people who haven’t used CAD before and apparently master 2 programs in only a few weeks. There is obviously still a lot of work to be done in the Siemens camp to get their act together. Life goes on elsewhere though, we can’t be waiting on never never land. I’ll believe change at Siemens when I see it has happened. In the meantime I wont be giving a lot of attention to whats happening for SE. It doesn’t appear to be moving ahead for ID purposes anyway. Seems that was a short lived notion like flirting with SW users. I’ll look in again after ST8. Keep at it guys.

    • Hi Neil,
      You bet it was hand picked. But the problem is Siemens etal provide so much ammunition that I could post every day on some other dumb thing without looking hard to find material. I open up my inbox and it by itself provides all I need. I pass most up and only use the ones that really get to me. I don’t blame Saratech for this article. They have to respond to their environment and Siemens pushes NX PLM and Teamcenter stuff. I read about this almost 1B in contributions to shipbuilding and universities over in Virginia. I have requested a breakdown of what was contributed so I can give an honest assessment as to whether SE was in there or not and no reply. What I see is heavy on NX and PLM/Teamcenter analysis stuff that is not with SE. That they don’t answer for whatever reason is typical. And so are the actions they take and what they apparently are supporting. I am asking here again what is the presence SE has in this Virginia stuff? Anyone care to set me straight?

  4. Now I know why VAR engineers are so useful, they have had an entire month of self taught CAD skills.

    • Hi Rick,
      I have had great support from the VAR engineers I have worked with from ALLY PLM for SE. I am certain that the regular support guys from Saratech would also be competent. One of the good things done for SE a couple of years back was that the second rate VAR’s were weeded out. I think you would be hard pressed to find bad support from any of the VAR’s now selling SE. Please do not read into this that support for SE is bad.
      I think this was just a sad set of words and choices from a guy supporting the rookie techie and he opened his mouth before his brain and had no idea he would convey this impression. But once again am I surprised? It kind of goes back to the technical side is great and the public face is pretty mindless and lives in the dysfunctional Siemens world view. That is the side I despise and I hope it was not Saratech’s intent to truly sell NX to SE users. But this is the world the red headed step child lives in for sure.

  5. Guys,
    I respect everyone’s opinions when they are based on facts. But this is going a bit too far with assumptions. First off, we are talking about an article written by young man who is probably still in college, hence the title of Associate.
    Secondly, I would like to thank the young man for taking the time to learn the basics of both systems. It’s not an easy task to learn a CAD system, let alone a second system. I have a feeling that this young man had the opportunity to bounce his questions off of some very veteran users in his office. Hence, his learning curve wouldn’t be like a standalone users trying to learn the tools. You also need to understand the author says that he learned the basics quickly. That is good thing, don’t you agree? New user of SE. Quick learning.
    Secondly, this is an article written by a VAR and not Siemens PLM. You can critique the article for content, maybe formatting and structure. But you can’t blast Siemens PLM for this. Blast the educational system or maybe a reviewer of the article. Being a good writer a hard job. Being a good technical writer is even harder. If you don’t like what is being said you have the right to complain but do so constructively. Don’t pull the rug out from under a new user. Shame on you!
    I know that the title is not a title SE user would like to read. Especially with all the animosity and the politicking that happens when a software OEM has multiple products that do compete, to some extent. It always appears that one product family is favored. Now I use the word “appears” because I don’t work for Siemens PLM and I am not going to assume I know more than I do about the internal politics. I’m sure there is some politics. There is at any company. Anyway, the title is just a title and it is the users experience, not yours, not mine, but his experience.
    Let’s put marketing on the side line for our discussion and have a non-confrontational discussion based on the facts about the article and provide some meaningful discussion about the points in the article. Can we do that? Can we be big boys instead of bullying a college kid?

    • Hi Ryan,
      I get tired of having my face stuck in this mess for years and this is a result of it. You know I have been a partisan for SE for a long time so perhaps you just might figure out there are things I know you do not that have accumulated over the years and have led to this sorry state and soured me completely against Siemens and the treatment of SE. I make a living with SE and it is completely clear that the Siemens bunch have no desire or interest in growing market share to benefit their paying customers and them selves. There are things I know which I will never talk about because I respect those who try to make a difference and won’t sabotage what they are trying. I will however heap well deserved ridicule on those who have created this situation and perpetuate it and seemingly don’t care about fixing it. These Siemens people are disgusting and I am fed up. You don’t have to like it and I know for sure you don’t know all the reasons that have led up to this so we are going to just have to see things from different viewpoints here.

      About this article the kid wrote. I don’t care if he was showing how easy it was to learn both. FACT of the matter is like most of Siemens and some VAR’s SE is not something you really get behind. It shows with wording like NX is better than SE. Yeah we get that and tear a hunk from SE while talking about it. Does no one from Saratec vet these things before publishing or is it rather they thought it was a good article and don’t think about beating the competing software programs. Is perhaps SE competing software for their NX side? Who knows but this never should have seen the light of day. As a writer I spend time to convey exact ideas and opinions. I assume others do the same. Buy SE because it works well for you not because Siemens is going to diligently pursue market share to everyone’s benefit like a rational company would.

  6. The problem is that Siemens presents such a bad public face for SE.
    If you are shopping for midrange CAD chances are you may not actually know someone like Dave who might put SE’s case better. All you can find, if you can even find it, or be bothered tracking it down, is very grey dull unappetising stuff that probably has a similar effect on the reader as the article quoted above. Heck last year you couldn’t even find out about ST6 in timely fashion on launch day, and this ‘indifference’ has to have an impact on sales. I imagine while people do collect some info for SE it goes to the bottom of the pile and stays there. Its like having the brochures for a Ford Fiesta, Toyota Corolla and Lada Riva. SE is currently the Lada of midrange CAD. Once you get to that perception its kind of hard to get out of it even though new models might be a fair improvement. Dave is quite right, Siemens has to do much better. Even though his being outspoken may be unwelcome, he is actually correct in his criticism and ought to be listened to as painful as that may be for some. Although there have been signs of improvement recently around SEU the likelihood is that without a co-ordinated campaign across all facets of SE marketing its not going to be enough. Even the those who are aware SE is poorly promoted and are generous toward it will just get fed up of waiting and move along. Fixing the wipers on the Lada one year and the ash tray the next is not enough. Some time ago I said that SE should go away and get their entire act sorted and come back afresh and prepared to be an effective competitor and although some ventured I needed a slap for that I still think that would serve SE interests better. Customers, VARs, Siemens would all benefit, and Dave could go out on his boat without his mind straying to blogging again about his dissatisfaction.

    • Hi Neil,
      What he said!! I have absolutely no fun ragging on these people. It is a source of intense frustration that has taken away all my desire to help out as an unpaid fan. I don’t want money by the way I just want to feel like the efforts are appreciated by people who feel the same way and contribute accordingly to a goal I thought we shared. Karsten Newbury, Don Cooper and Dan Staples all do yeomans work for users. They are however employees and can only buck the system just so far which by the way is woefully short of any resemblance of sanity from Siemens. (Marketing wonders why they can’t get more people to be bloggers. The only other active one besides me in the last year is Tushar Sudakar and he wants to work for Siemens so there is an alterior motive there. No one else is as dumb as I am to really like a product enough to talk about it and work for it to be better with a company that could care less.) Picture this group of really talented guys sold down the river by idiots and because they work there they have to take it. I on the other hand can say exactly what I think about the total abject stupidity of Siemens regarding SE policies from them. I don’t care about their opinions of me and I rather hope I step on some toes in a big way. Sad thing is that rather than listen if any of these tone deaf big wheels from Siemens say anything at all it is in the form of edicts about why you can’t ever do anything. Never go do something and here is the money and we will base your rewards upon sales. It is assinine corporate edicts and rules and meetings and meetings and meetings and meetings and just total paralysis. If all of Siemens is run this way I can’t believe they are still as big as they are. And if only SE is run this way I wish they would just sell it off to a company that cares.

  7. Dave,

    It’s clear now that SIEMENS doesn’t value SE at all.
    While there are some within the organization who do value it, it is now safe to say that SE is destined to be sold-off or orphaned as a product.

    While NX may be a great CAD package, the fact that SIEMENS dismisses it’s current SE customers tells one everything that is need to know about how SIEMENS values customer, period.

    How else can you explain an NX CAM product that doesn’t allow the creation of custom tool geometry.

    SIEMENS will continue to use the corporate philosophy that got it in trouble with for violating the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

    The only way for SE to flourish to be sold off to a company that sees the value in it.
    Highly unlikely as it’s clear SIEMENS is not interested in any competition.
    They act like they’ve been kicking themselves for holding on to it for this long.

    • Hi Tim,
      The idea that onerous burdens are placed upon employees because the top management of Siemens has been caught in corrupt practices has been one I have conjectured about for some time. So I figure that the company suffers as a whole while people who have no desire to see SE succeed atone for the errors of their ways by passing tons of see we are sorry regulations that hamper everything for those below them.

      Are you serious about custom tooling? I can’t imagine this “world best” cam product does not do such a vital thing.

      I am constantly amazed at how tone deaf Siemens is. I don’t know anyone who thinks Siemens public face is worth a flip but Siemens really and truly does not care. Buy software from them because it works well not because they care about you as a customer especially where SE, Siemens Controlled SE that is, is concerned.

      They have another problem they apparently don’t care about coming up quickly and that is Autodesk who at this rate is destined to be #2 and SE #3. Or #1 and #3 as Siemens is so darned inept that I can’t see them ever beating out SW but I can see Autodesk doing so. I have to admit that if Inventor gets significant improvements and incorporates top flight direct editing they have my attention. HSMWorks up to 5 axis and Inventor Pro can be bought for $10,000.00 total and yearly maintenance is $1,500.00. CAMWorks is better than HSMWorks for overall power. SE is far better than Inventor right now but Autodesk is working hard on it. The real kicker here though is that if I were a new buyer of CW4SE 5 axis and SE it will cost me north of $25,000.00 PLUS $5,000.00+ each year for maintenance for the SE CW4SE combo and $10,000.00 PLUS $1,500.00 for maintenence for the HSM Inventor combo. That is for new customers but even as an existing SE CW4SE customer for the cost of SE CW4SE maintenence alone in three years I PAY off Inventor HSM and put $3,500.00+ in my pocket each year after that.

      Siemens has no plans to counteract Autodesk and no plans for and SE conquest of Dassault’s SW because they do not care. They bought UGS to improve internally and if you contemplate buying SE fine but don’t expect them to chase you to be a customer nor care if you ever become one. It is not what they bought UGS for. I think they do care about NX etal though as they do seem to push it. All in all a clueless detached bunch of meeting obsessed empty suits where SE is concerned.

      • Dave,
        NX can create a custom tool but it’s useless for all practical purposes. It only works for certain planar ops.
        Need to create an SAE or SUN Hydraulic Porting Tool that can be used in a drill cycle? Forget it. Need to use a custom relieved shank lollipop tool for 5-axis, forget it.

        SIEMENS is NOT a company that actually cares about the quality and usefulness of the products it sells.
        If it did, its attitude towards its existing PAYING customers would be decidedly different.
        SE is a product that should literally own the current market.
        It is being deliberately sabotaged by SIEMENS for reasons that only make sense to them.

      • Tim,
        The thing that gets me about software companies is they all do this half done stuff. Go to any forum for any product and there are serious problems that should NEVER have seen the light of day. Then off they go to charge you for fixing their flawed products while they use you as a beta tester to catch what they were to cheap to have sufficient staff and testing for on their own. Pretty good deal for them I would say.

        Siemens is deliberately sabotaging SE of this I am sure. The why is the only question and quite frankly as this drags on I hope that Karsten Newbury, Don Cooper and Dan Staples can find a happy home where initiative is rewarded and success in the marketplace is not only allowed but also expected in an environment set up to produce these kinds of results. These top flight guys are wasted under the Siemens Solid Edge Suppression Zone. I would hate to see them go but I also hate to see them in straight jackets and shackled to Siemens stupidity. I really regret having helped to talk some people into hiring on with what I thought was a forward looking company only to find out just how inept Siemens really is. They are going to run off all the great SE people over the next couple of years would be my guess. And they probably want them to go so they won’t have to listen to talkbacks against their corporate stupidity. I can’t find a polite or complimentary thing to say about Siemens after having watched this debacle unfold.

      • Dave,

        This screen capture is what the geniuses at SIEMENS think is for defining a customer turning insert.

  8. ‘boosting sales or market share ‘

    I think an impostor Autodesk fanboy here is retarded. Autodesk has just begun extorting money from its customers with its annual fee policy and zero perpetual licensing options across all their products why don’t you focus on them maximising revenue (which I hope they fail anyway)? NX is superior because it has more features than SE does. Simple as that.

    • Sometimes you get replies that are just to funny to pass by. Almost like John Banquer had been resurrected. Anyway Allan if you had read almost anything I have posted regarding Autodesk in the last eight months you would know I have been commenting on the subscription mess but I know that is asking a lot of you to do that. In your mind I guess something two years old is current news though. Yes NX is superior and so how does that relate to anything I have said? Are you sure you are not John Banquer?

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