Recently the overlords of the official Klipsch sponsored forum have gone a bit wonky on what they allow. Apparently the idea that things like my tweeters are called upgrades really irritates some Klipsch people and so they have been deleting some tweeter threads and comments along with other threads on different topics that also irritate them. I have no idea what prompted all this but find it somewhat ironic.
Roy Delgado is the chief engineer for Klipsch and he does admirable work. I have nothing but high regard for his technical abilities but his involvement in the forum has not been so productive. Very sensitive to the idea that thirty year old drivers and horns have been improved upon and are far better then those old dog barker tweeters Klipsch used for way to long. He talks about preserving the PWK legacy and vision and sound but has done things like convince PWK to start using Tractrix horns so he himself is guilty of changing PWK’s “vision” for some decades now. The computer generated models he gets for insanely complex crossovers are nothing at all like legacy PWK Klipsch but they just happen to work much better. I understand Roy is loyal to the vision of PWK but somehow he can change things around and it is approved whereas others do the same thing and it is not.
Klipsch and Roy themselves have admitted the old tech drivers were no good when they came out with the new ones for the revamped Cornwall 4 and the Heresy 4 and the new Forte. New drivers, new lenses in places, cabinet modifications and new crossovers. The end result is very good and they are light years ahead of the old style. My jaw dropped the first time I heard the CW4 and Heresy 4 and even though I make aftermarket tweeters I would sure not put them in these. Incredibly improved and also NOT PWK designed so whose vision is it now anyway? I say it is Roy’s vision and all that PWK legacy honoring stuff is just words.
What makes this kind of sad though is the demand that only pure unmodified Klipsch speakers are truly Klipsch speakers. Only JEM capacitors will give you that genuine “Klipsch” sound, whatever that is. Funny thing is that those of us who treasure our modified Klipsch speakers still consider them Klipsch speakers. But just what is a pure true blue Klipsch speaker sound anyway when Klipsch is busy changing the recipe that makes that sound? I figure the good bones a Klipsch speaker comes with allows for aftermarket tinkering, and a La Scala or Chorus for instance can go another 30 years or more and sound much better doing so with minor tinkering. Tinkering with Klipsch speakers goes back for decades on the Klipsch forums but there are now new rules to go by.
I had a thread about the new LMAHL V2 and SMAHL V2 started by another forum member that discussed the new V2 style and went into it in great length. I referred people to it on occasion when they wanted to see curves or why they were better. I figured Claude who was a forum member who graciously tested my ideas for me and other forum members who described what these new tweeters did for their speakers in their own words stated what they were and did better then me. Plus these were honest comments from others and not from the guy tooting his own horn just because he makes them. I am egocentric enough however to tell you patient readers I make the best aftermarket drop in tweeters for Vintage Klipsch speakers but let unsolicited buyer testimonies on EBay and the Klipsch forums do my horn tooting.
Much to my chagrin this thread was deleted. I found out when I referred someone to that thread and they could not find it. Well in looking neither could I because that now offensive “upgrade” thread had been deleted. So I did a search and found a link to the old post that while it did not work did give me a time frame and topic name to enter into the “Wayback Machine” site where I find the complete thread archived in all it’s glory.
If you do not know about the WaybackMachine it is a wonderful research tool you should know about. It saved the tweeter thread in a way Klipsch can’t delete and I have found old Pro Klipsch gear brochures from the 90’s there also that Klipsch had thrown away a long time ago with a past forum “upgrade” that trashed a lot of legacy data.
So, you have MAHL V2 questions there are once again answers.
Machined Audio Horn Lens 
Happy to hear from you Dave. I haven’t visited the forum in a while for similar reasons. The Facebook pages are the same with Trey Cannon chiming in there dogging any mods or upgrades as non Klipsch, no longer Klipsch sound (that’s why I modded!) and such, it gets tiresome. I love my smahls and recommend them when I have the opportunity. Thanks again for your work, love to have you visit again and have a listen. Take care.
They are fighting a losing battle to preserve this mythical Klipsch purity standard. Their refusal to acknowledge some of their past driver and design problems and dismissing what actual klipsch speaker owners have chosen to do by their own preferences is a bit silly. We choose by our own ears to define what the “Klipsch” standard sound is and Trey and Roy can bloviate all they want about the correct sound and that is their opinion only. Many happen to have different opinions and are willing to spend their money and time to find what THEY like and not what Trey and Roy like.
I guess with this post I have kind of crossed a line here and I am seriously contemplating greener pastures then the Klipsch forums have become. Serious tinkering audio hobbyists I once read often on the Klipsch forum are mostly gone and I see those names elsewhere now on other forums. I am in the process of joining those forums too.
I keep intending to get up there again and had planned to this summer until my wife had a stroke. Kind of changes your available time.
Thanks for the reply Dave, I’m sorry to hear about your wife having a stroke. I hope she is doing better, god is good, medicine these days is working wonders, and I pray for her continued recovery.
What forums do you peruse regularly now? Just curious what’s out there, since the Klipsch Community forum is disintegrating, and what a shame.
Take care.
Thanks for the prayers. I really don’t have a favorite or even a frequented forum yet outside of the moribund klipsch forum. I just registered at the Audiokarma forum but have yet to do much or fill out things like my system. I have occasionally gone to the DIY Audio forum but primarily for technical things and not anything klipsch related. Of course the Klipsch forum as it was moderated by Carl will always be my favorite and a cherished memory and I expect nothing will replace it. They ran Carl off and it has been all downhill since though lately the deterioration has been extreme.
I have been told I need to get involved with the fakebook groups which I intend to look into. As I find out where to go I will have another post that will talk about what I have found.
It really is a travesty what is currently happening on the Klipsch forum. Your thoughts above totally encapsulate the issue, even it is their sandbox.
When I first started lurking the forum I was well impressed how many said to upgrade the deficient K77M tweeter to a DE-120 on SMAHL. Sure enough, they were totally right when I finally made the jump.
Time will tell if the Community will survive the new corporate Klipsch rah rah approach, but today I am not so optimistic.
The forum is going no where but the content many of us came there for is leaving. What brought me there some 8 years ago was two sets of La Scalas I had bought and they sounded different. I ended up on the Klipsch forum where I found answers and stayed. It is a bit appalling the number of very popular threads being axed because they talk about modifications and upgrades. Sad thing is that they really were upgrades and I think that is what frosted some rear ends over at Klipsch. For some reason Klipsch hangs onto bad ideas way to long and their K-77 and K-76,79 etc tweeters are prime examples of bad things. It is why the thread talking about my SMAHL and LMAHL V2 versions was deleted because what I make is the best out there and Klipsch with all their money and talent elected to stay with dated inferior stuff.
Thank you, Dave, for totally encapsulating the odd new Klipsch forum attitude towards loyal Klipsch owners trying to better their sound. I find it both sad and ironic that we can no longer discuss Klipsch loudspeakers on the Klipsch forum. Although it appears there is still lively discussion there on all other topics….
I would imagine it is the VOXX people doing this. I can’t think of one company that gets bought out that does not have their practices changed by the new overlords and normally for the worse where consumers and users are concerned. The Solid Edge design software I have used since 2009 has fallen to the same exact problem and the new bosses killed the user community among other things.
Hello Dave, I’m very interested in upgrading my La Scalas k77m with the Smahl v2, but, after careful measurements (bottom of cabinet top to center of motor board cutout) I think the diameter of the de120 might be a bit too large. The Faital driver looks like it would fit if I ground about a eighth~quarter inch of the cabinet top. Have any other users found this too be an issue? Thanks, Kevin
Hi Kevin, No these will not be to large. One of the key requirements for drivers for the SMAHL’s was the ability to fit that restricted space. Not a lot of drivers out there that will do this and the B&C DE-120 tested the best and fit. Not sure which Faital driver you are referring to or did you mean the B&C one?
I’ll try measuring again, as I’d certainly like the best result, but I make the center of the cutout to be an inch and 3/8s ( or 34.93 mm) from the edge of the top panel, and the de 120 being 35.5 from center to edge. The de110 is only 33, but they aren’t available. The Faital hf102 is also 33, and there’s an even smaller Celestian, but it’s more expensive. I don’t have an eBay account. Would it be possible to buy direct from you if I can work out the details? Thanks again, Kevin
This is the one that has fit everywhere else on La Scalas. Now it is possible that yours might not depending on how old it is. LS’s from the 70’s and earlier were routed out by hand with jigs. This meant that at times the opening was to small and I have a reduced size boss set for that. Now if the DE-120 does hit the cabinet inside top it would not hurt to grind a little away from where they bind together. I have had some KHorn owners have to do that as the older KHorns are also subject to factory variances. What year is yours?
The DE-110 was intended to replace the DE-120. The DE-120 is in the archive driver section of B&C’s literature and the DE-110 is in the current offering section. However no one I know has used the DE-110 and the head of B&C Speakers USA tells me that as long as there is a demand to the DE-120 they will produce them no matter where the specs are listed.
I have never entertained the idea of using the DE-110 as the DE-120 has great sound and a huge name recognition and the DE-110 does not. You are the very first one to bring that driver up.
For information’s sake the K-77 square magnet driver measured 2.61″ and the DE-120 measured 2.761″ in my shop today. So the DE-120 takes up .05″ more from horn center to the cabinet.
Mine is from 1977, and could be an anomaly, although both cabinets are exactly the same. The center of the cutout is <33 mm from the top. The round driver in there now is about a sixteenth from touching. It’s definitely not more than 2.5” in diameter. I’m going to look for a de110, I only see it in one place, and it’s a little pricy. Parts express has the small diameter Celestion. I’m going to see if I can find any reviews or postings on either, and I may just end up grinding the box, it will at least give me the peace of mind that it will sound good. Thanks again, I’d like to get this going by this weekend, I’ll be in touch, Kevin
US Speaker says they have them for $80.00. They also have no reviews on these. Parts Express does not show them. USS and PE are the two companies I use when I step outside of B&C with whom I have an OEM account with. None of these neo magnet drivers are cheap and I know nothing about the Celestion. What is the bolt hole pattern on that Celestion?
https://www.parts-express.com/Celestion-CDX1-1412-Neo-1-Compression-Driver-35W-8-Ohm-294-1962?quantity=1
It’s a standard 2 bolt.
OK that is the same bolt pattern as the DE-120. It has a polymide diaphragm which is a plus since it is not Ti. It has 35 watts vs the 20 watts nominal power on the DE-120. Better frequency range but might be hot until attenuated and will need attenuation before the DE-120 would.
It looks interesting and I might have to have a look at these. The curve looks good but that does not really tell how they will sound which would have to be heard live to tell. Curves don’t lie except for tonal quality which they really can’t accurately assess for the ear. Whatever it does it will be superior to that old dog barker K-77.
Dave did you ever test the Celestion driver?
Not yet and not sure when if ever. I might make sure there are holes there to mount them with but I can’t afford to stock much more then I do now.
Thank you for the reply. As a new (1984 vintage) La Scala owner I’m trying to first get everything working. I’m very interested in your SMAHL V2 but feel like my 40 year old XOs (version AL) need to be replaced first. Assuming the next upgrade is your tweeters with the B&K driver, do you like a particular XO? I’m leaning towards the ALK Universal III. Others have recommended new AA or AL-3 from either Crites or a Dean G AL-3 rebuild (most expensive option). Just curious for your opinion, as I plan for the future. Cheers, Mike
OK since B&C ran me out of DE-120’s this month I have a set of Celestion drivers being tested. They pass that I will then try them in a set of speakers. So the new answer is YES I am trying them.
Hi Dave,
FYI, TheWayBackMachine only appears to have the first page of the Klipsch thread archived now. That, or I am not navigating the site properly, which is a distinct possibility.
Regards,
Nathan
I have not checked there for some time so I am not sure what is going on. What were you wanting to know?
Hi Dave,
I was not looking for anything specific. I was just reading for general knowledge. When I noticed that only the first page was available, I thought I should let you know in case you wanted to update your post accordingly.
Thanks for being a great resource to the community.
Regards,
Nathan