Recieved a letter today from one of the Siemens SE people telling me that ST4 has been released. I look forward to delving into this new release. From the things I am hearing back from beta testers this one is mostly about making it work well for users and short on useless window dressing which is meant to work well for share holders. I am pleased to see this direction with SE and all I can say here is that it is nice as a customer to be involved with a company that is as concerned about my ability for geometry creation as I am.